I'm the knife nut that everybody is ashamed to know. Matix was then shot in the right forearm, probably by Grogan. Introduced officially in 1991, this hollow point round is especially famous for its unique-looking projectile. At the end of a nearly five-minute shootout and over 140 rounds fired, five FBI agents were wounded and two (Jerry Dove and Benjamin Grogan) were killed. [15], Platt fired one round from his Mini-14 at Risner and Orrantias position, wounding Orrantia with shrapnel created by the bullets passage, and two rounds at McNeill. [1] Time Magazine described the Black Talon rounds as a bullet "designed to unsheathe its claws once inside the victims body and tear it to pieces." 366 (S.D.N.Y., 1996). [17] As Platt entered Grogan and Doves car, Mireles, able to use only one arm, fired the first of five rounds from his pump-action shotgun, wounding Platt in both feet. This ammunition line was renamed Fail Safe. I generally test new bullets to see how they expand through barriers one is likely to encounter. Youll likely not hear this directly from Remington, but the Golden Saber round is designed to expand very similarly to the Black Talon. Mireles does not remember this happening. The .40 S&W PDX1 cartridge is available for purchase by civilian shooters and was the primary service ammunition of the FBI until 2017 when they switched to the Hornady Critical Duty line.[16][17]. made waves when it was released. 29K views 1 year ago I grabbed some of the infamous Winchester Black Talon 9mm. In fact, for the first two years Black Talon was on the market, it received an award from Shooting Industry magazine. AgDaily, OutdoorHub All Rights Reserved Carbon Media Group Outdoors. Even the old snub nosed 38 with plus P ammo would shoot through a persons torso at close range. Black Talon is a brand of hollow point pistol and rifle ammunition introduced in 1991 by Winchester, primarily intended for law enforcement and personal defense use. The core is made of high-antimony lead making it extremely tough, delivering controlled expansion for unparalleled terminal performance. [23] Mireles reached the drivers side door, extended his revolver through the window, and fired his sixth shot at Platt. But the Kahr works best with the 200-grain Gold Dot; an ideal load for that gun. By the time I moved back to the States and started shooting again, new stories and legends long surpassed talk of the Black Talon. A 4 Sig and a 4.5 S&W both worked well. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt! To keep it fair, we havent included anything too out of the ordinary, and everything listed below can be found for commercial sale. Expansion in gelatin blocks starts within 1/2-1 of entry and leaves a approx. While the Black Talon may have been a PR nightmare for Winchester, it was not a complete loss for the company. Before that Matix had already served in the Marines, then went Army. Among collectors and self defense experts, Black Talon ammo is well-known as one of the most effective self defense rounds in the world. Winchester stopped producing the Black Talon round in 2000, and that kind of fed into its mythology and mystique. Grogan and Dove were kneeling alongside the drivers side of their car. Black Talon was controversial, and Winchester discontinued sales to the general public in 1993 and ceased manufacture in 2000. Two of the agents had backup revolvers (Hanlon and Risner) and both would use them at some point during the fight. You must become a subscriber or login to view or post comments on this article. Besides further dimensional changes to the hollow point for reliable expansion, the distinctive perpendicular petals were made longer yet more rounded at the tips to retain stiffness. Home Ammunition Black Talon and Todays Best Self-Defense Ammo. Most of the rounds below can be found in multiple calibers, including the ever-popular 9x19mm and .45 ACP. Injured by shrapnel and debris produced by a .223 bullet near miss. On impact, the material is forced into engineered internal fissures to start the expansion process. "These are bullets that are strictly used to maim and kill". [16][22], Platt attempted to start the Grogan/Dove car. The FBI agents had loaded jacketed hollow point bullets into their .357 Magnum revolvers. The alleged armor-piercing (AP) notion is urban legend, and was a result of media hyperbole (perhaps confusing "Talon" with the "Teflon" that coated KTW AP bullets[citation needed])rather than test or field data from actual shootings considering the short time it was on the market. The round is a traditional hollow point design, but with a reverse taper. SXT Description: FOR SALE: WINCHESTER BLACK TALON .45 acp BRAND NEW ~ OLD STOCK SIX (6) boxes of 20 rounds each of Winchester Black Talon, 230grain DP load (deep penetrator) collectible and great defensive round. Winchester got burned by its own marketing hype on Black Talon, when criminal misuse of the product fueled media hysterics over bullets that deploy flesh-ripping claws. Even though it can be found on sites like GunBroker for a premium, people are still in search of a modern-day equivalent. Ideally both! Israels Cutting-Edge Missile Warning System to Be Deployed in Ukraine This May, US Special Forces Evacuate Embassy Staff in Sudan: Other Americans Left Behind, Again, Navy SEALs David Goggins versus Dan Crenshaw in SEAL on SEAL Internet Death Match, SOFREP Stands With Our Brothers Who Demand Responsibility for Disastrous Afghan Departure, Adam Brown: A SEALs Life of Courage and Redemption, Complete List: Ticonderoga-class Missile Cruisers To Retire By 2027, Nuclear Close Calls That Nearly Caused World War III, Russian Sausage Millionaire and Putin Critic Falls to His Death in India. He spoke in detail of the Shoot Out to our students. 22 years old. In 1993, the Black Talon bullet gained notoriety after it was used by a gunman in a mass shooting in a California law office. Most of the design for the Black Talon was rolled over into the Ranger SXT ammunition, which operates on much the same principle. The Federal HST rounds have the backing of the FBI. A strange thing happened when I shot multiple Hornady Critical Duty rounds through ordinary pine lumber 24s, backed by sand/clay. Can you guess what it is? The rifle version did not share the handgun bullet's barbed petal design and was basically a solid copper hollow-point with a hollowed out rear shank containing a lead core in a steel liner to prevent jacket rupture thus maintaining necessary penetration in tough game. A word of caution is that while this individual had dropped his weapon a fled a short distance I ordered the poor agonizing suspect hand cuffed. After only approx. Think a little bit harder/smarter. Additionally, it must penetrate clothing including heavy jackets, denim, and leather. In 1996 a lawsuit was subsequently filed by one of the victim's family members (McCarthy v. Sturm, Ruger and Co., Inc., 916 F.Supp. Thats why Federal HST is the duty load of choice for law enforcement officers throughout the world. Sign In Why Join As a Dealer Dealer Login. Needless to say, Jihawg Ammo quickly found itself the target of criticism and even derision from much of the gun owning community. John Hanlon: Smith & Wesson Model 36 .38 Special revolver, 2-inch barrel, five rounds .38 Special +P fired. We reserve the right to edit as appropriate, delete profane, harassing, abusive and spam comments or posts, and block repeat offenders. The incident lasted under five minutes yet approximately 145 shots were exchanged. Box 378 Red Hook, New York 12571 United States. Winchester Black Talon is arguably the most aggressive and most lethal hollow-point round ever designed due to the sharp petals that expand when it makes contact with the human body. 0. I chose my Rangers because theyre on the FBI approved list, and they were the cheapest. The autopsy found Platts right lung had collapsed and his chest cavity contained 1.3 liters of blood, suggesting damage to the main blood vessels of the right lung. When a hollow point bullet hits a soft target, it mushrooms out to what looks like a flower with petals. Its specially designed hollow point wont plug while passing through a variety of barriers, and the bullet jacket and core hold together to provide nearly 100 percent weight retention through even the toughest materials. I have ?? FACTORY ORIGINAL WINCHESTER * BLACK TALON * AMMUNITION 45ACP 230gr. Black Talon, a type of expanding, hollow-point ammunition also vilified in the early 1990s as "cop-killer bullets". By admin | January 9, 2023 | 32. [10], Colin Ferguson used Black Talon ammunition for his Ruger P89 919mm pistol during a 1993 shooting incident. Review: Hi-Point JXP 10mm An Overgrown Yeet Canon Thats a Lot of Fun! Your email address will not be published. Winchester discontinued the Black Talon line completely in 2000. This is original 44 Mag Winchester Black Talon 250gr. Washington Takes Oppression of Gun Owners to New Lows, Finding a Firearm: My Wifes First Pistol, Throwback Thursday: 5 Long-Slide Pistols I Cant Live Without. Wish I could write this well! Black Talon can comfortably replace Izanagi in Night Falls. However, after medical examiners performed autopsies on the bodies, it was discovered that one bullet stopped just less than an inch from the heart. You can use it in melee, like a normal sword, but you can also shoot void projectiles. Glock 32 Gold dot 125 gr Edmundo Mireles: Remington M870 12-gauge shotgun, five rounds 00 buckshot fired, .357 Magnum revolver, Smith & Wesson Model 686 (despite not being FBI-issue), six rounds .38 Special +P fired. Unlike the Black Talon, for whichnegative media attention caused the discontinuation of the line, G2s R.I.P. It does excellent damage and comes with the Crow's Wings perk that launches a Heavy Attack projectile at enemies. Risner and Orrantia, observing from the other side of the street, stated that they did not see Platt leave the car and fire at Mireles. But it seems that they maybe more Gun Owner In Name Only. I still see students in my Concealed Carry Classes who buy the gun, get the permit, then put the thing up on a shelf in the closet never to be seen again. It cuts through the organs of a human being.[18]. As a result, the FBI began the search for a more capable sidearm and more effective ammunition. Winchester Ammunition 230 Grain Jacketed Hollow-Point (JHP) Ammo Details. [8] Platt then pulled back from the window, giving Matix opportunity to fire. OutdoorHub // Reply Save Like The Black Talon, like all hollow point bullets, opens up (commonly called expansion or mushrooming) when it hits soft tissue. I only fired one magazine, but I still remember the reaction at the range as an overly large flame and extremely loud bang provoked extreme interest from the other shooters. Seriously injured by .223 gunshot wounds to the right hand and neck. John Hall, FBI Firearms Training Unit Director at the time called the tragedy an ammo failure. The aftermath encouraged the FBI to seek new guns, more effective ammunition and set precedence for the FBIs protocol on ammunition evaluation and testing. Black Talon has a black bullet with six serrations at the nose seated on a shiny nickel-plated cartridge. Why ? For collecting, it might be alright. Suspects[edit] If you compress the blood vessels in the body enough, the blood ruptures vessels at the weakest point. Black Talon rounds were known for the unique construction of the bullet and its sharp petal shape after expansion following impact with tissue or other wet media. The black appearance was due to the oxidized copper jacket. No, Black Talon rounds are not armor piercing. The points of the claws are actually the result of the geometry of the copper jacket being inside the nose cavity and subsequently turned inside-out on impact. What are black tipped bullets? The 230gr JHP manufactured by HOP Munitions results in a slightly slower FPS of 876 FPS but offers a greater downrange energy of 392 ft/lbs. cannot easily destroy. Black Talon is a brand of hollow-point pistol and rifle ammunition introduced in 1991 by Winchester, primarily intended for law enforcement and personal defense use. Black Talon Ballistic Gel Test ** 45 ACP & 10mm ** The Wound Channel 58.4K subscribers Subscribe 246K views 8 years ago I was fortunate enough to have a viewer send me some Black Talon. One round hit McNeill in the neck, causing him to collapse and leaving him paralyzed for several hours. "[19][20] Both the round and the firearm have subsequently been adopted by all branches of the United States Armed Forces, except for the Coast Guard. For that job I switch over to the blue ball tipped Glaser Safety Slugs, still sold by CorBon. 357 black talon ammo for sale and auction. Physician Boyd Stevens, the San Francisco Medical Examiner who performed the autopsies, later reported at the 1994 International Wound Ballistics Association's conference in Sacramento that the wound trauma caused by Black Talons was unremarkable and that all victims died due to penetration of a vital structure.[6]. I own a lot of the DPX and EDC it, but those magazines dont go aanywhere near my nightstand. In the shootout, the eight FBI agents were mainly armed with Smith & Wesson Military and Police .357 Magnum revolvers shooting .38 Special +P ammunition. Were either Platt or Matix ex-military? We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. The most interesting thing about Black Talon rounds is that they are still used today by ######. "Winchester to Limit Sales of Controversial Bullet", by Pierre Thomas, A Tax Debate Focuses on Destruction Science, "WINCHESTER LUBALOX COATED BULLETS FACT SHEET & FAQs]\", Hex Bullet Hi-Jinx: Taurus' capable copper bullet, "In Person; On the Other Side of the Divide", "Black Talons vs. SXT vs. T-Series etc", http://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/accessories/press-releases/1781067-New-Winchester-reg-Bonded-PDX1-trade-Superior-Personal-Protection-Ammunition/, "An Official Journal of the NRA | FBI Selects Hornady Critical Duty Ammo", "Reeva Steenkamp was standing when Pistorius fired first shot, court told", "US Army's M1153 Special Purpose 9mm Hollow Point Ammo Tested -", "An Official Journal Of The NRA | M1152 & M1153: The Army's New 9 mm Luger Loads", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Black_Talon&oldid=1150014565, This page was last edited on 15 April 2023, at 20:52. The result is extremely uniform expansion, better separation of the petals, and more consistent penetration across barrier types through full-size handguns. In addition, some recommend the Federal HST. The shots were believed to have been fired by Dove. I was on duty that morning in Miami and heard it go down on my police radio Since it was being dispatch County wide as it was happening, After that day and event and listening to Sgt Dave Rivers who was in charged of MDPD crime scene unit give a detailed account of the events that took place and all the things that happened surrounding it I vowed I would let myself be outgunned. The little blue ball keeps the hollow point from clogging, and when it opens its like an itty bitty shotgun shell, full of balls. I really like Hornady ammunition but like several that I know along with others that have commented having the same results with Hornady Critical Duty/Defense not expanding as it should, have switched to Federal HST rounds for EDC. It was captained by Revinal Orzik. Shopping with us is absolutely safe - you never have to worry about credit card safety when shopping here Share your latest AR build or photos from the range with #RangeDayFriday for a chance to win a new firearm! Terminal ballistics testing of hollow point bullets is generally performed in ballistic gelatin, or some other medium intended to simulate tissue and cause a hollow point bullet to expand. This expansion creates a larger wound channel. In 1993, the Black Talon bullet gained notoriety after it was used by a gunman in a mass shooting in a California law office. Rapidly expanding projectiles help to ensure that all of the energy able to be summoned up by a pistol caliber will remain in its primary target. Nowadays, people still claim Black Talon was the best defensive handgun round. Gun #: 975110313 Seller: GunFactory ( FFL) $219.99 Full Details 1 Image (s) Elevation Talon 46 Bow Case Black 46 In. The Ranger SXT ammunition sold later by Winchester is very similar to the Black Talon though without the black Lubalox coating on the bullet. A fictionalized version of the Black Talon bullet called the "Black Death" is utilized by Hank Schrader to kill Marco Salamanca in the Breaking Bad episode "One Minute". Platt then apparently positioned the Mini-14 against his shoulder using his uninjured left hand. Several years ago, SIG Sauer started expanding its market share into electro-optics and ammunition. [8][25], Toxicology tests showed that the abilities of Platt and Matix to fight through multiple traumatic gunshot wounds and continue to battle and attempt to escape were not achieved through any chemical means. I once worked at a large LEO pistol & rifle range for several years. Thank you for your service! Although not available anymore, you can get comparable performance, if not better, out of the above alternatives. [12] The car had come to a stop against a parked vehicle, and Platt had to climb across the hood of this vehicle, an Oldsmobile Cutlass. Winchester Black Talon bullets were released by Winchester and debuted at SHOT Show in 1991. Trust me, those friends have no intention of visiting you in prison. Black Talon is a type of ammunition that was introduced by Winchester Ammunition in 1991 primarily for law enforcement and self-defense. Uninjured. "Cleverness and luck", Evan Thomas and Russell Watson. I am in no way an expert, but I think the black talon 180 gr load in 357 is hunting ammunition. Hence, I tend to use Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, Ranger Talons/PDX1 as EDC rounds I would ask others to try firing the otherwise well-conceived Critical Defense round through 2-4 of lumber to see if the nose also becomes clogged with soft would, preventing expansion entirely. Put it head to head with the Federal HST 124 grain in ballistic gel and against a Kevlar bulletproof panel!. Plus backups which we had to qualify with and had to be department approved. . Grogan, however, is credited with landing the first hit of the gunfight, wounding Matix in the forearm as he leaned out of the Monte Carlo to fire the shotgun at Grogan and Dove. Testing out the Winchester Ranger SXT .357 Magnum 180 gr SXT (Black Talon bullet circa 1993) in a 10% Clear Ballistics test in my 4" S&W 686 and 2" Taurus 60. This is unlike traditional hollow point designs where the expanding jacket petals peel back almost completely behind the expanded mushroom shape. Plus I saw rounds that had been recovered from a number of officer involved shootings. RecPak is a meal replacement for the outdoors that saves you weight, space and time in the most challenging environments, just add water. What type of background did they have that allowed them to use their weapons with such evil proficiency? We have to portray an image of conscientious awareness to go along with our situational awareness. Elevation Talon 44 Bow Case Black 44 In. The FBI has awarded Hornady with a fixed price indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity (IDIQ) agreement for its 9mm +P 135-grain Critical Duty ammunition. In December, Colin Ferguson killed six people and injured 19 more on a train in New York. Hollow points are designed to rapidly expand after hitting a target, causing as much damage as possible and reducing the chance of overpenetration. All comments are held for moderation and will appear after approval. [18], Around this time, Metro-Dade police officers Rick Frye, Leonard Figueroa and Martin Heckman arrived. Black Talon rounds were known for the unique construction of the bullet and its sharp petal shape after expansion following impact with tissue or other wet media. I was honored to meet him 4 more times. Range Report: How Good Is the Smith and Wesson M&P FPC 9mm Folding Carbine? A 3.5 Kahr failed to expand a round from the same box, and the bullet behaved like ball ammo. to work with. Black Talon ammunition was created by Winchester in 1991. Bullet innovation, invention and design have come a long way baby and there are plenty of effective, accurate, reliable and better self-defense rounds available today. As Platt climbed out of the passenger side car window, one of Doves 9 mm rounds hit his right upper arm and went on to penetrate his chest, stopping an inch away from his heart. Minor injuries from shotgun pellets. I have a box of sxt, but chose the bonded version for performance through auto glass. People shoot poorly under stress. Col Leonard J. Supenski of the Baltimore County police department said "It has the stopping power that police officers need and it is less likely to ricochet or go through the bad guy,"[2] something that could be said of any reliably expanding hollow-point. While its black color and petal-like constructiongave it a very distinctive look, the rounds performance was roughly on par with other hollow points. Buy a 357 black talon ammo online. Glock 21 Hornady XTP 230 gr +P / Ranger 230 +P. 4-6 diameter wound cavity about 10 long. A great go-to self-defense round in any caliber is the Speer Gold Dot. which includes rounds from both semi-autos & wheel guns. I had the chance to see countless 1,000s of spent rounds in all calibers & brands carried by LEOs. I decided on a Glock 27 .40 caliber loaded with Hornady Critical Duty. They never worry about what holster to buy as they have no intention of ever carrying that thing. It is as if they are just going through the motions, putting a check in a box on some fanciful list somewhere: Go to the store and get bread, eggs, paint the garage, buy a gun, wash the car . Misconceptions abound regarding these bullets, and you might even hear phrases likeits overpowered, its specifically designed to kill people, or strangely enough, its armor-piercing.. The 10mms travel at 1600fps with 767fp of muzzle energy, the .357 Sigs travel at 1550fps at 614fps muzzel energy. The initial collision that forced the suspects off the road caused some unforeseen problems for the agents, as the FBI vehicles sustained damage from the heavier, older car driven by Matix. points to a box of the Cop Killer bullets that you used. The claims against Olin were dismissed because it was held that the plaintiff could not prevail because there were no defects in manufacturing, design, or in warnings the bullets "functioned exactly as designed".[11].
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