It is as though our Asian brothers and sisters who comprise I know many people think this is false doctrine and I did put myself in their shoes to understand where they were coming fromI could see what they were trying to say, but the fruits werent lining up. were transfigured before him. When I first came upon the doctrine of multiple probations I said There is NO WAY I wanted to live another life like the one I was living now not that its been horrible but very Hard. It felt right to me but the opposition was so strong and vociferous I proceeded with caution. People that I still feel the spirit about, so I have to pinch myself too, haha. I have done as the Savior Himself declared to ask and it shall be given you, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you (Luke 11:9). Just after the section discussing the Re. 8 of the Most Bizarre Mormon Beliefs - Purpose in Christ This helps restore piecesand so the restoration continues! Answered: Choose one innovative idea the Church | bartleby Thank you for putting our thoughts into words of deeper understanding. Thank you for bringing it out of obscurity. DRAFT. In words borrowed of the symbol of the baptism we will lay down our old body to receive a new one. I have been a member of the church my entire life, and it has been my life. The main topics are the levels, or ladder, of eternal progression and the end times servant otherwise known as the Davidic Servant. Libraries. And it speaks that our destination after this life, even if we come up short of the Glory of God could not possibly be our final destination for eternity. Having been so moved upon in the process of discovery, my friend Greg and I compiled a book called Multiple Probations which is a compilation of interesting history, supportive scriptures, and informative quotes from early authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Thanks for sharing this interesting history. We invite you to share this with all those you know who might benefit from it. Single Probation Doctrine, and Mortal Experience. Apparently, Laub wasn't the only who understood the King Follett Sermon this way. My second Temple Marriage was to a man who had spiritual gifts, such as seeing, hearing, and speaking to those beyond the veil. That is so very sad but I am thankful for that. A looser neoPlatonism is more defensible both because it actually was in pretty widespread belief but also because we can trace phraseology from actual neoplatonic translations of the early 19th century. Sincere thanks and God Bless Always! dangerous doctrine. John 9:2 Come what may; I believe what I believe, and if a mans belief, though strange, is cause for punishment or ridicule from anyone, which is the greater sin? He was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Greg pointed out another of these natural and likely divine reminders and shadows to me, in the daily rising and setting of the sun. It has been referred to many times in this essay and the comments as doctrine. After Moses had a face to face conversation with God, he had Cristina Rosetti says there are groups of Mormon fundamentalists who believe in multiple probations, living several lives to reach exaltation. Thank you for visiting and commenting Anna. And sorry you got excommunicated! it is hard to accept ideas that have not been touted over pulpits or publicized . I will give up on this life and try again in the next life. It's kind of like how in our times people will say stuff like, "What if the Holy Ghost is Heavenly Mother?" I do have a question though. man. The movement has a few thousand adherents, many of them members or former members of the LDS . What, when, and to whom those truths could come was left open-ended. we are saviors in a derived sense in which we preach the gospel. It suggests that we find ourselves in endless cycles of creation, living and dying over and over, learning and progressing, ascending the ladder step-by-step until we eventually "get it right." Once this one is done, I will be satisfied with whatever modest reward it qualifies me for. 13:38. One of the questions that has bothered me since I was very young is: How did it all start? . We will be free to choose to be with those we love, who also want to be with us. to inherit the same glory, the same power and the same exaltation, until you ascend the throne of eternal power the same as those who are gone before. I cannot share this knowledge with my family yet because they are so narrow-minded. Satan will do everything he can to create doubt and to try and destroy all truth. I cant mention this topic to my family, friends, or post about it on any platform, without incredible hurtful persecution. I know the doctrine has come to me, and indeed to many hundreds (if not In my experience the most important point of the discussion here, which I believe to be among earnest seekers of truth, is being lightly treated by those on this forum but clearly illustrated in your comment. I am not good in writing but I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE!!! I could discern truth because I have long since done what you and Julie ask us to do almost every podcast. Ensign, October 2017, 64-71. I love converts, and you have reminded me that the convert enthusiasm for new truth should never die in our hearts, like Nephis song of redeeming love, and if it does die, then we have indeed stopped growing! We and our partners store and/or access information on a device, such as cookies and process personal data, such as unique identifiers and standard information sent by a device for personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, and audience insights, as well as to develop and improve products. Here is where my thesis becomes a bit more speculative. Chad Daybell's strange end-times beliefs are not Mormon theology, says How is it fair or reasonable that in our generation we are also to try to become perfect when our lives only last a mere 70-100 years, and we have to do it at a time when the earth has NEVER been more wicked? path, and between my Father in Heaven and me. Adam-God can then be seen as based on JS' teachings and the endowment, with a simple fundamental misunderstanding on the identity of Micheal in the Godhead. about the doctrine, but it is important to me. Thank you for sharing. Possession, castings, and first interaction with Chad on day 9 of the 2:307 or TPJS, pp. That actually seems more admirable to me - that Jesus himself "became" who he was through 1000's of lifetimes of progression and trial and error, just like the rest of us. Again, I hope my sincere curiosity is coming through. I still dont know, or even pretend to know, but I do know that some day I will know and it will make perfect sense to me. Multiple Mortal Probations Article - Page 11 - LDS Freedom Forum Thank you for raising this important point Diane. Mahalo. to be better than others or have suggested that even if it were a true to do for Him in the past is a great motivator for similarly serving Him in the Some of them taught such principles rather clearly over the pulpit, where their words have been recorded in the Journal of Discourses (JD). thousands) of people I have personally heard from in emails, within the LDS We are all blessed! There is always hope in Christ. May I share my own experience that has allowed me to know and discern truth of such doctrine as MMP. And as you mention that we are progressing to good or evil with every new morning the words of the philosopher Heidegger come into my mind. Now of course the argument of various forms of platonism in early Mormonism typically comes with it the claim that Joseph ismisreading platonism. The True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days ( TLC) is a breakaway sect of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). I love your island perspective, which I hadnt considered. Is it not so, surely? (Moses 1). 2.3M+ acres, 1 in every ~550 acres of private land. I can only answer that through study, prayer, fasting, and a fair amount of grief, I have paid the price to know. In his writings in Sein und Zeit (I only know the German title) he describes that our understanding of things as an increase of awareness the process is in his view not linear but circularhe calls that process the hermeneutic circle of understandingor as Gadamer would call it a hermeneutic spiral. And it is all possible only in and through the merits of our Savior, the Son. Wow. In D&C 132:55 where the Lord is speaking of Joseph Smith he says, and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an hundred-fold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of eternal lives in the eternal worlds. It appears to me that children, and crowns of eternal lives are two different things. THE PROBATIONARY TEST OF MORTALITY. I truly appreciate your time and great efforts in doctrinal essays and your wonderful books. I am he. It boggles my mind the intricacies of the plan and yet how simple it is! The pursuit of the souls perfection seems somehow lighter, brighter, and more assuredly attainable. Whitney had high hopes his statement would pave the way for multiple probations to become church doctrine, and gave a copy to President Snow also: . For some of us, the doctrine came along at a time we had P.S. Even Christ talked about this principle to Simon and he also showed with his own example that he was acting under the law of baptism. Thank you again for bringing more clarity of the Great Plan to light. And a gate symbolizes a new aera of time. February 28, 2017 in General Discussions. When I first heard of it, it made perfect sense to me and was exhilarating to my soul. I can see that in the spiritual world it goes way beyond any earthly graduate school I can imagine. Apostle Lorenzo Snow said that "his sister, the late Eliza R. Snow Smith, was a firm believer in the principle of reincarnation and that she claimed to have received it from Joseph the Prophet, her husband." [i] Most Christians believe in the binary afterlife of heaven or hell. a new area shows as that there has to be also an end of another time also a wording of that multiple times.. or multiple probations.. I like your point about second chances for wayward souls. That marriage ended in divorce and left me and others in a lot of pain and devastation as to discernment of truth and error, light and darkness, in such gifts. Thanks, as always, this is very well thought out and written. Even Brigham Young said, My traditions were such, he confessed, that when the Vision came first to me, it was directly contrary and opposed to my former education. The Folly of Multiple Mortal Probations - BOOK OF MORMONISM I am finding that this doctrine adds more meaning and understanding to my gospel study. As for the sealing question, I certainly believe that sealings are very important. Because LDS leaders sometimes refer to this life, before our death and eventual resurrection, as our "mortal probation," based on the scriptural term "probationary state," Daybell and Vallow call their belief in reincarnation "multiple mortal probations." Further, Mormon doctrine asserts that people can become gods. What surprised me was the fact that it resonated with something in me even as it was a total new doctrine to me. I continue to find supporting evidence in scripture and temple ordinances. He had enough problems with plural marriage and the law of Consecration. He, Only He. When I first heard you and Julie talk about multiple probations on a podcast I was surprised but thought: Orson Pratt apparently wasn't in on it or hadn't understood it as others had. If it does not come from the Prophet they will not even investigate. But Icanlook upon thee in the natural The Seven Deadly Heresies | Bruce R. McConkie | BYU Speeches Lori Vallow Daybell's older sister became the latest family member to testify against her sibling at the "doomsday cult" mom's ongoing murder trial in the 2019 slayings of her two children. That stopped me in my tracks and I didnt know quite how to answer that. Some may ask why I or anyone else have been privileged to learn of these doctrines while others have not. His response changed my eternal perspective forever when the voice of the Lord spoke to me and said I Am not in the business of destroying my children, nor are they ever lost to me for they are mine. Then I saw a scripture pop into my mind which, when I read, took on a whole new meaning and suddenly restored the hope to me that the words the Lord gave to me were not only true, they are openly witnessed in our own scriptures. The more I hear the more I learn from you and Julie!!! WHY ONE of my sons and I have always said we CAME here with a testimony finally clicked and I feel so blessed because it isnt that easy for some to believe. So beautiful and strong words that I saw citated by you and Greg this dynamic of dying and be born again. Especially that your own witness didnt come from a human. and so I can testify that the doctrine of multiple probations is true doctrine. I no longer depended on him to get us there. [1] According to orthodox Latter-day Saint teachings, this life is a test or probation to see if people will live by God's commandments. LDS church on Gilgul or multiple mortal probations Third Hour Forum Rules - Please be familiar with these rules before posting. I love truth wherever it is found. This is not a final conclusion by any means, but this strikes me as Joseph Smith trying to get to his next level of understanding and thinking some of his own thoughts on certain things short of getting a definitive revelation on the subject. Something that has always been there but was never realized by me. Knowing myself well enough to know that I would never have agreed to such a thing knowing my own weaknesses all too well..and having been able to learn from on high many amazing things in temple service..i began to question the plan as it was being taught every sunday..my questions as a spiritually gifted woman were met mostly with disdain amidst the patriarchy and toxic perfectionism of many members through no fault of their own but through false Traditions that have been passed down and incomplete doctrines. Peace, enlightenment, and hope are wonderful gifts. This concept found me. This group gives us a safe platform in which we discuss the trials, tribulations, prophecies and signs of the last dispensation of which we live in. In my experience the most important point of the discussion here, which I believe to be among earnest seekers of truth, is being lightly treated by those on this forum but clearly illustrated in your comment.
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